Objectivetruth- I appreciate your recommendations. However, I know there is nothing wrong with beards. I was being sarcastic. Alot of witness men who leave the organization grow beards as if its some great liberating thing to do. I was merely implying that if this is what Hamsterbait was refering to when he told me to live life ,I'm not impressed.
Chris Tann
JoinedPosts by Chris Tann
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67
Preterism
by Chris Tann inwhen i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
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67
Preterism
by Chris Tann inwhen i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
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Chris Tann
Hamster, live my life doing what? Getting drunk on weekends, cursing my mouth off, grow a beard and get a stupid tattoo? Woo hoo, what a great life. NOT!
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67
Preterism
by Chris Tann inwhen i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
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Chris Tann
When I started to do my research concerning TTATT, I started to see the scriptures in a different light. One thing I noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, Christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later. Even when Jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what THEY were soon to expect. When reffering to these subjects that Witnesses and other Christians believe are reserved for our day, these writers never imply that the fulfillment is a long way off. They never say `our people (Christians) will experience this thousands of years from now.`.
At this time in my life I never heard of Preterism, however when I found that theirs a name for what I was discovering,and other people share this same understanding, I was thrilled. So, although as a Notsurist ( my made up label for my beliefs) Iam not positive on the Bible and certain teachings, I tend to lean toward preterism in understanding the Greek scriptures. This means I lean towards these beliefs:
1. We are not in the last days ,waiting a cataclysmic end. Jesus' disciples asked in Matt. 24:3 " When will these things be...what will be the sign of your presence?" Jesus proceeds to tell them what they should expect at their time. Vs. 33 he says " when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors". Jesus was speaking of his presence- vs. 30, 36,39. He was speaking directly to his disciples of that time period, not to us two thousand years later through his disciples.
2. Jesus started ruling in kingdom power around or at 70c.e., not 1914 or our future time. In Luke 21:31 Jesus said that when his disciples see all things transpiring , that they should know that the Kingdom of God is near. Also in the book of Revelation John is told repeatedly that the events he records would happen "shortly", "soon", and he should not seal up the words of the scroll. Revelation deals with Christ coming in Kingdom power.
3. A ressurection of certain holy ones as well as the rapture, happened in the first century. Matthew 27:52,53 , bodies of saints were raised, then after Jesus' resurection they went into Jerusalem and were seen by many. Do not be fooled by the NWT putting parenthesis in this verse, they are not in the Greek. They do this to make it harmonize with their doctrine. This account could be how the resurrection is described symbolically in Hosea 6:2-"He will make us alive after two days. On the third day he will make us get up...". Perhaps this is describing how the resurrection in Matthew takes place. First,the dead bodies are raised up, or as Hosea says; "made alive", not necessarily up and conscious. Then ,after Jesus is resurrected, they become conscious people walking about. As Hosea says ,"on the third day he will make us get up".
Also in 1 Thess. Paul says those in his time who die in the Lord will be raised before the living Christians are snatched up. He makes it clear it will hapoen at their time, durring Christs presence. Did the rapture occur back then? Well I cant say for sure but there is no record of what really happened to faithful ones ,like all the Apostles. They seem to just disappear.
So this is what I think, any comments?
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114
Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7
by Perry initalic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
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Chris Tann
Designs and Kaik, you both make some good points. I must admit that I did read the book Why the Jews Do Not Believe in Jesus, ot something like that. It made many of the points you two bring up. I will look further into your claims, doing so with an open mind.
As of now I consider myself a Notsurist, I find good evidence for and against Christianity. I tend ,though to lean toward supporting it. Yes ,you are correct, Judaism and Christianity are very different. I just feel that Jesus fulfilled the law and his way is the new covenant foretold, the next chapter in worship o f God if you will. So thanks for your input and I'll hear from you two another time.
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114
Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7
by Perry initalic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
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Chris Tann
I'm hoping this is my last post on this subject,lol.
Designs- I have shown that many rabbis(jews)viewed the the Messiah the same way early Christians did. Sure, thete are many Jews who interpret those events differently from Christians. However there are many Jews who changed and believe in Jesus as their Messiah. Even Jews in the first century,according to the book of acts. Yes a Christian book says this, I dont believe that just because it is in the NT it isn't reliable. It is an historical document and written as such.
Bar Kokhba is never mentioned because of not conquering, Jesus is followed by millions,even though he didnt even try to reclaim Jerusalem from the Romans. Yes jews and mostly non jews. Just because Jewish teachers taught how they felt the scriptures must be fulfilled,doesn't mean they were correct. God told Moses to make the tabernacle after the pattern he would see, it is representative of whats in heaven. What does the animal blood sacrifices represent? The Messiah.
Kaik- read Psalms 49:6-9 . This tells us that God will receive a ransom for humans to redeem them, but no man can provide such a ransom because the price is beyond their reach. Why? Because they are imperfect. A perfect human can ransom man from the imperfect mans sin ,that is Adam. Jesus was that perfect man.
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114
Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7
by Perry initalic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
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Chris Tann
Designs, you say things to disproove Jesus, we show you things that disroove your proofs, then you go no further to give evidence we are wrong( which I welcome). The facts are that Christians from the first century wrote about this Jesus; inside and outside the Bible. Everyone has their own opinions about him. It is obvious that some people are convinced for several reasons that he is our salvation, others are sincerely convinced he is not ,based on just as good reasons.
My opinion is ,that if many are unconvinced because of their investigation, then how can a just God condemn them? I just hope that the Supreme spirit will one day reveal what is true, and give everyone a chance to accept it.
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114
Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7
by Perry initalic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
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Chris Tann
Designs- there are many ancient rabbis who wrote about Isaish 53 being a prophecy of their Messiah, not only that, they also write that this prophecy shows that the Messiah would have to suffer for their sins. The Talmud even says the Messiah woukd atone sins by his death. This is not a foreign idea to the jews. But over time, becsuse everything they believed about these prohesies identified Jesus ,the modern rabbis changed the meanings to detract from Jesus.
In Leviticus 17 God says animal blood must be poured out, why? God says because life is in the blood and it is blood that makes atonement for their lives.what can atone all of mans' sins for good than the blood of a perfect man? He doesn't deserve to die, so if he does die at the hands of others that blood now has reedeming power, it now can be symbolically passed on to imperfect humans who believe in its redeeming value, and then they, at Gods due time, can inherit that perfection which was wrongfully taken away from the one who willfully gave it up-Yeshua Maschiach.
This is not Pauline concepts, it is in the Hebrew Bible,and many rabbis knew this and wrote about it. Dont trust modern day rabbis interpretations. Go to the ancient rabbis, if possible the ones who wrote before Jesus. Thank you.
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114
Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7
by Perry initalic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
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Chris Tann
If you go to shoreshdavid.org you will find quotes from ancient rabbis saying the Messiah must die, he would be called Gods' son, they believed Isaish 53 is speaking of the Messiah, Jerimiah 31 means God would set up a new covenant through the Messiah, and Daniel 9 predicts when Messiah would arrive.
Also you can verify here and other sites that Jews and non jews reported miraculous events around the temple whithin the fourty years of its destruction in 70c.e., that signifies Gods rejection of the temple and its services,after Jesus' death.
Someting significant happened back then regarding this man Jesus. After all I dont know too many historical men who have created so much contraversy and influence about 2000 years after their death. Mabey we should keep our minds open regarding being critical or supportive of Jesus as The Creators Messiah ,until 100% proof shows up either way.
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Is the AGM today?
by hamsterbait inanybody going or who can give us the noolite hot from the gb a$$?.
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Chris Tann
HeyHildebrando, no I'm not happy. Your only source is J W Leaks, all other sources do not include the 10 hour basic pioneer. J W survey does not include it because he said he can't verify that, also several witnesses who attended the meeting say nothing about it, which we would assume they would, I mean 10 hour pioneering is more juicy than new songs ,which these attendees do include. Just saying,please make sure of these thing before posting. We don't need false rumors spreading, that can take away credibility from some ex witnesses who are trying to reason with Witnesses on TTATT. THANKS brother.
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207
Is the AGM today?
by hamsterbait inanybody going or who can give us the noolite hot from the gb a$$?.
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Chris Tann
HeyHildebrando, your credibility is suffering because you won't answer people's inquiry of your, and only your statement that basic pioneering was announce at meeting( 10 hour pioneers) is this just made up?